Cudoniella? - Forum ASCOFrance

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Cudoniella?

William Slosse, 06-03-2020 22:03

Good evening everyone,
today I found this asco on a decorticated branch of Sambucus nigra in the Oosthoek dunes in De Panne. I thought it could have been a Cudoniella here.

Apothecium: max 1 mm diameter; cream to light brown; exipulum with small flank hairs.
Stem: height max 0.8mm; basal half dark brown; apical part with small hairs.
Spores: 2 oil drops; Av = 4.39x2.30; Qav = 1.90; N = 14
Asci: J-; 8-track; croiziers present

Thanks you for any suggestion.

William

Hans-Otto Baral, 06-03-2020 22:12

Re : Cudoniella?

The hairs clearly refer this to Cistella. Perhaps C. geelmuydenii. But asci should be hemiamyloid, did you try with Lugol. or with KOH-pretreatment?

William Slosse, 07-03-2020 22:10

Re : Cudoniella?

This is the only visual reaction I obtain in IKI 1-3.
Perhaps my KOH and Lugol are degenerated.

Hans-Otto Baral, 07-03-2020 22:35

Re : Cudoniella?

I mean the minute ascus apical ring should react hemiamyloid, sorry. This is only visible with oil immersion. If your Lugol (without KOH) stains the plasma yellowish, then it is good to check this.

William Slosse, 08-03-2020 10:23

Re : Cudoniella?

Hello Zotto,
these are the results after a few minutes soaking in Lugol.
I just notice a very slight discoloration in the ascustop.

Hans-Otto Baral, 08-03-2020 10:25

Re : Cudoniella?

Yes, there could be a reaction. But your Lugol is much too weak, needs simply a few iodine crystals to add.

William Slosse, 08-03-2020 11:30

Re : Cudoniella?

Forgive my critical attitude, Zotto, but could these eventually be Hyphodiscus (hymeniophilus)? It's a gues based on a paper of Quijada et al. 'Studies in Hyaloscyphaceae associated with major vegetation types in the Canary Islands I: Cistella and Hyphodiscus' (2015). There are, among other things, a few photos of the hairs that are very similar to those of the specimen discussed here.

Hans-Otto Baral, 08-03-2020 11:33

Re : Cudoniella?

It is worth thinking, but I would not expect such apically inflated hairs there, nor whitish apothecia. Hyphodiscus is morphologically close to Cistella, but typically has gel in the excipulum, though this is not a consistent character. Also the warts on the hairs are larger and fewer.

William Slosse, 10-03-2020 21:31

Re : Cudoniella?

So, Zotto, I was able to make some preparations in a stronger Lugol.
I think I now notice a clear discoloration in the ascustop.
What is your verdict: Cistella?
And is it possible to put a generic name on it?
Kind regards, William

Hans-Otto Baral, 10-03-2020 21:53

Re : Cudoniella?

So clearly positive and seems hemiamyloid (type rb, dirty red).

I still believe in a Cistella, and C. geelmuydenii would be my first choice.

William Slosse, 10-03-2020 22:02

Re : Cudoniella?

Thank you, Zotto, for this nice and very instructive discussion.
Regards, William

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