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Hans-Otto Baral
Hello I want to ask you if you have found this ye
Hyaloscypha sur Picea abies
Bernard CLESSE,
22-05-2016 23:18
Bonsoir à tous,Pourriez-vous me donner votre avis sur cet Hyaloscypha trouvé sous l'écorce et sur le bois pourri d'une souche d'épicéa ?
a) asques IKI+
b) spores étroitement elliptiques-subfusiformes, souvent arquées, avec quelques microguttules vers les pôles : 6-9x2-2,5
c) paraphyses filiformes
d) cheilos lagéniformes subulées
Bernard
Kosonen Timo,
23-05-2016 08:24
Re : Hyaloscypha sur Picea abies
Looks very much like Hyaloscypha aureliella to me.
First, the apothecia is typically undulating when mature and it grows on softwood trunk. Spore size (6-10 um) fits well, also the shape. Aureliella typically has these two smallish glubules on both ends. Croziers present. Hairs size and shape +- ok, although the hair base is here maybe more bulbous than usually, granules present (check them in MLZ).
Often there are MLZ+ nodules in the excipulum. Rather small and inconspicious, but still clear if you look for them. A good aid, and to my knowledge, "rules out" other options.
--or then, work out the key by Huhtinen (Karstenia vol 29). There are some pirate pdf:s also around...
Timo
First, the apothecia is typically undulating when mature and it grows on softwood trunk. Spore size (6-10 um) fits well, also the shape. Aureliella typically has these two smallish glubules on both ends. Croziers present. Hairs size and shape +- ok, although the hair base is here maybe more bulbous than usually, granules present (check them in MLZ).
Often there are MLZ+ nodules in the excipulum. Rather small and inconspicious, but still clear if you look for them. A good aid, and to my knowledge, "rules out" other options.
--or then, work out the key by Huhtinen (Karstenia vol 29). There are some pirate pdf:s also around...
Timo
Bernard CLESSE,
23-05-2016 09:40
Re : Hyaloscypha sur Picea abies
A big thank you for your help and information Timo!
I will try Melzer as you suggest and will refer a picture tonight.
Best regards,
Bernard
Hans-Otto Baral,
23-05-2016 10:05
Re : Hyaloscypha sur Picea abies
I don't think this is aureliella. The upper hair part is much too narrow. Also H. aureliella typically has yellowish resin on the hairs.
My guess is H. fuckelii, which I sometimes had on conifers too.
Zotto
My guess is H. fuckelii, which I sometimes had on conifers too.
Zotto
Kosonen Timo,
23-05-2016 10:29
Re : Hyaloscypha sur Picea abies
Yes! The resins should be there (water mount) in most collections, if not, then fuckelii is a better guess. That would explain the hair shape too...
Timo
Timo
Bernard CLESSE,
23-05-2016 22:50
Hans-Otto Baral,
24-05-2016 07:10
Re : Hyaloscypha sur Picea abies
Very good photos! I remember Huhtinen stressed that in some species the hair warts disappear in MLZ, but I can't remember in which, and don't imagine that they disappear in H. fuckelii.
Bernard CLESSE,
24-05-2016 08:02
Re : Hyaloscypha sur Picea abies
Thank you for your answer Zotto ! But notes that for the pictures here, I've used water mount and not Melzer. I have not kept photos of preparations with Melzer but I remember they were always seen small warts on the hairs.
Bernard
Bernard
Kosonen Timo,
24-05-2016 08:28
Re : Hyaloscypha sur Picea abies
Great photos Bernard,
Aureliella is ruled out. No resins in the hairs / no amyloid nodules in excipulum and also these multiple small warts along the hairs don't fit aureliella.
According to Huhtinen's monograph H. fuckelii hairs are smooth in MLZ (and other solvents) - very rarely there are some apical warts after MLZ/CB. Was this the case? I am not sure if your pictures include hairs in solvents... Need to go to lab, I'll get back to this in the afternoon.
Timo
Aureliella is ruled out. No resins in the hairs / no amyloid nodules in excipulum and also these multiple small warts along the hairs don't fit aureliella.
According to Huhtinen's monograph H. fuckelii hairs are smooth in MLZ (and other solvents) - very rarely there are some apical warts after MLZ/CB. Was this the case? I am not sure if your pictures include hairs in solvents... Need to go to lab, I'll get back to this in the afternoon.
Timo
Bernard CLESSE,
24-05-2016 10:19
Re : Hyaloscypha sur Picea abies
Thank you for your message Timo !
I had observed the hairs in Melzer mount but I could not find satisfactory my photos, I have not kept them. But I remember seeing a small ball at the top of the hair with Melzer. Tonight, I will take of photos hairs in Melzer.
Bernard
Bernard CLESSE,
24-05-2016 20:25
Kosonen Timo,
25-05-2016 07:45
Re : Hyaloscypha sur Picea abies
Yes, the hairs are not totally smooth and the tip of the hair is to be noted. But solvent did remove the numerous tiny granules seen in the water mount. This points to H.fuckelii. Most of the Hyaloscypha species include a lot of variation. And Seppo (Huhtinen) just mentioned that he had seen hairs like these (clearly lageniform) among the >200 aureliella populations he has drawn. But for know, fuckelii, or does Zotto have a second opinion?
If you don't mind sending live material I'd be happy to make a culture out of it. We are working on Hyaloscyphaceae systematics and I have so far only one fuckelii-collection and that is from Scandinavia as are most of the others. Some French(?) colour to our project wouldn't do any harm!
Timo
If you don't mind sending live material I'd be happy to make a culture out of it. We are working on Hyaloscyphaceae systematics and I have so far only one fuckelii-collection and that is from Scandinavia as are most of the others. Some French(?) colour to our project wouldn't do any harm!
Timo
Hans-Otto Baral,
25-05-2016 08:03
Re : Hyaloscypha sur Picea abies
It was fine to see that the small ganules disappeared in MLZ, I agree!
No other idea than fuckelii. Yes, it would be great to make a culture and sequence.
I also wonder about whether H. aureliella and its var. britannica are genetically different.
No other idea than fuckelii. Yes, it would be great to make a culture and sequence.
I also wonder about whether H. aureliella and its var. britannica are genetically different.
Kosonen Timo,
25-05-2016 08:09
Re : Hyaloscypha sur Picea abies
If anyone has live H.britannica I'd be happy culture it too. Might even send a box of chocolate in return. ...it doesn't necessarely have to be UK material ;-)!
Timo
Timo
Bernard CLESSE,
25-05-2016 08:11
Re : Hyaloscypha sur Picea abies
Hello Timo and Zotto and thank you for your recent comments!
Timo, can I have your mailing address to send the live material ?
Thank you in advance !
Bernard
Timo, can I have your mailing address to send the live material ?
Thank you in advance !
Bernard
Kosonen Timo,
07-06-2016 10:02
Re : Hyaloscypha sur Picea abies
It is fuckelii all right, and it looks like we got a good culture. Thank you Bernard!
Timo
Timo
Bernard CLESSE,
07-06-2016 10:21
Re : Hyaloscypha sur Picea abies
Very glad to hear it! Good luck in your work Timo !
Bernard
Bernard













