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Bituniqué s/ Quercus
Luc Bailly,
22-03-2012 00:25
Bonjour à tous,Sur bois décortiqué de Quercus robur, après nettoyage d'une pelouse calcaire. Ruines de Logne, Ferrières, prov. Liège, B., 2.03.12.
50°23'32"N, 5°32'14"E
Très peu d'exemplaies mûrs et au stade parfait. Je n'ai pu faire l'examen au lugol ni faire des réactions pour une éventuelle gangue.
Pseudothécies noires, hirsutes sauf au col, isolées, apparemment surtout émergées, sans stroma, ~0.3mm
Asques bituniqués, 16-sp, sp. bisériées, p.ex. 94x18, 74x17, 65x17 µ. Hamathécium absent.
Spores olives, muriformes, avec 3-4(5) cloisons transversales, 1 cloison longitudinale, et localement l'une ou l'autre cloison oblique, (13.5)14-18.5(19.5) x (5.5-6)7-8 µ. Chaque cellule est lisse et guttulée. Il ne semble pas y avoir de gangue gélatineuse.
Péridium opaque, noir. Soies brunes, à parois épaisses, -> x 4 µ.
Aucune idée. Je ne vois pas d'où partir. Probablement un groupe systématique que je n'ai pas encore rencontré.
Amitiés - LUC.
Gernot Friebes,
22-03-2012 00:42
Re : Bituniqué s/ Quercus
Hi Luc,
this is an interesting find! It looks very much like Capronia pleiospora. C. juniperi is close to this species but it is said to possess more obovoid ascospores with obtuse ends and it is (only?) known from Juniperus. However, I have never seen this species.
Would it be possible for you to send me some ascomata for examination? That would be great.
Best wishes,
Gernot
this is an interesting find! It looks very much like Capronia pleiospora. C. juniperi is close to this species but it is said to possess more obovoid ascospores with obtuse ends and it is (only?) known from Juniperus. However, I have never seen this species.
Would it be possible for you to send me some ascomata for examination? That would be great.
Best wishes,
Gernot
Luc Bailly,
22-03-2012 00:51
Re : Bituniqué s/ Quercus
Hi Gernot,
The specimen is still in my frigo, in a closed box. I'll have to check how many pseudothecia's remain, that was very scarse and mixed with numerous pycnidia's. If I still see hirsute ascoma's, I sure can send it to you. Just email me your address.
I'll check in my refs about Capronia pleiospora tomorrow (it's late at night here).
Thanks and cheers - LUC.
The specimen is still in my frigo, in a closed box. I'll have to check how many pseudothecia's remain, that was very scarse and mixed with numerous pycnidia's. If I still see hirsute ascoma's, I sure can send it to you. Just email me your address.
I'll check in my refs about Capronia pleiospora tomorrow (it's late at night here).
Thanks and cheers - LUC.
Hans-Otto Baral,
22-03-2012 09:02
Re : Bituniqué s/ Quercus
Guy Marson and I have noted a faint hemiamyloid reaction of the hymenial gel, especially near the ascus base, in C. pleiospora. So one of you might look for this character in the present find. Best for seeing the red reaction is to look while IKI enters the water mount. Afterwards use KOH, and check for the blue reaction.
Zotto
Zotto
Luc Bailly,
22-03-2012 12:20
Re : Bituniqué s/ Quercus
Hi Zotto,
Thanks for the information. I will check what remains to the sample this evening.
Gonna visit a bog with Alnus this afternoon :)
Cheers - LUC
Thanks for the information. I will check what remains to the sample this evening.
Gonna visit a bog with Alnus this afternoon :)
Cheers - LUC
Luc Bailly,
22-03-2012 21:14
Re : Bituniqué s/ Quercus
Hi Zotto, hi Gernot, hi all,
Here's the result I get with IKI diffusing in water.
Gernot, I think you'll find enough hirsute pseudothecia's on the piece of wood to study. I'll send you the sample tomorrow.
Not much in the bog yet. Dry, dry Spring :/
Cheers - LUC.
Here's the result I get with IKI diffusing in water.
Gernot, I think you'll find enough hirsute pseudothecia's on the piece of wood to study. I'll send you the sample tomorrow.
Not much in the bog yet. Dry, dry Spring :/
Cheers - LUC.
Hans-Otto Baral,
22-03-2012 21:33
Re : Bituniqué s/ Quercus
Yeah, this is clearly a pale red reaction in the lower half of the hymenium. If you are scepticle: when KOH-pretreated, the IKI-blue reaction is much more distinct and convincing.
In the literature you will hardly find the reaction menioned, mainly because it is completely suppressed by Melzer (without KOH).
Zotto
In the literature you will hardly find the reaction menioned, mainly because it is completely suppressed by Melzer (without KOH).
Zotto
Gernot Friebes,
02-04-2012 15:57
Re : Bituniqué s/ Quercus
Hi,
Luc sent me a part of his material (many thanks again!) so I could take some photos.
Best wishes,
Gernot
Luc sent me a part of his material (many thanks again!) so I could take some photos.
Best wishes,
Gernot
Gernot Friebes,
02-04-2012 15:59
Re : Bituniqué s/ Quercus
Here is the reaction with IKI (above) and when KOH (3%) is added (below).
Luc Bailly,
02-04-2012 20:20
Re : Bituniqué s/ Quercus
Hi Gernot,
Thank you for those great photos.
Could you eventually send them to me in high resolution? It'd be for my general refs.
Cheers - LUC.
Thank you for those great photos.
Could you eventually send them to me in high resolution? It'd be for my general refs.
Cheers - LUC.
Hans-Otto Baral,
02-04-2012 21:28
Re : Bituniqué s/ Quercus
Gernot, do you think the reaction is negative? I think so.
Zotto
Zotto
Gernot Friebes,
02-04-2012 21:57
Re : Bituniqué s/ Quercus
@Luc: Sure.
@Zotto: I think there was a very faint reaction (you can see slightly bluish shades on the lower photo).
Best wishes,
Gernot
@Zotto: I think there was a very faint reaction (you can see slightly bluish shades on the lower photo).
Best wishes,
Gernot
Hans-Otto Baral,
02-04-2012 22:02
Re : Bituniqué s/ Quercus
In such cases I darken the image a bit and enhance the contrast, then a blue reaction is better seen. But in fact, this is a very faint reaction.
Gernot Friebes,
02-04-2012 22:09
Re : Bituniqué s/ Quercus
well, that's much more than I've seen through the microscope, but it proves that there was a (faint) reaction. :-)
Best wishes,
Gernot
Best wishes,
Gernot
Paul LEROY,
07-04-2012 17:40
Re : Bituniqué s/ Quercus
Bonjour Luc,
D'aprés tes images et en particulier l'ascome recouvert de soies sur toute sa surface,il me semble que ton spécimen est plutot C.pleiospora que C.juniperi(synonyne de C.irregularis).Sinon les mensurations pour les spores et les asques conviennent bien pour cette espèce.
D'aprés tes images et en particulier l'ascome recouvert de soies sur toute sa surface,il me semble que ton spécimen est plutot C.pleiospora que C.juniperi(synonyne de C.irregularis).Sinon les mensurations pour les spores et les asques conviennent bien pour cette espèce.
Paul Leroy
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Luc Bailly,
07-04-2012 17:44
Re : Bituniqué s/ Quercus
Merci Paul.
C'est à ça que Gernot est arrivé. Et cela correspond bien à la description fournie par Elli & Ellis.
Amitiés - LUC.
C'est à ça que Gernot est arrivé. Et cela correspond bien à la description fournie par Elli & Ellis.
Amitiés - LUC.
?
Alain GARDIENNET,
07-04-2012 17:46
Re : Bituniqué s/ Quercus
Salut Paul,
Te voilà sur le forum !
On n'a pas fini te causer le bout de gras alors !
Amitiés,
Alain?
Te voilà sur le forum !
On n'a pas fini te causer le bout de gras alors !
Amitiés,
Alain?
Gernot Friebes,
07-04-2012 20:38
Re : Bituniqué s/ Quercus
Hi Paul,
I would like to know why you think that C. juniperi is a synonym of C. irregularis. I have never heard that before.
Best wishes,
Gernot
I would like to know why you think that C. juniperi is a synonym of C. irregularis. I have never heard that before.
Best wishes,
Gernot